MItsubishi Eclipse Walking Crankshaft Information

We are posting this info in response to the many questions we receive about the subject. We can not answer all the individual questions about the problem, please look thru this to see if it answers any questions you might have. This is a compilation of posts from the Talon Digest and local e-mail groups. You can find information about subscribing and posting information and questions to the Talon Digest at http://www.dsm.org , that is the best forum for discussing these problems.

From Bill Piaczenza:

Well, the class action law suit, regarding the "walking crankshaft", will never see its day in court. After contacting ten class action law firms I have come to the conclusion that recovery for the repairs is not going to be possible. The best encouragement I received was to try an individual warranty claim in court, but who wants to spend the money and time on that to save a few hundred dollars or so. Most of the lawyers said that this type of case is difficult to win primarily because it didn't happen to everyone. Plus, some of these vehicles have had the problem repaired under warranty and that brings down the numbers. I want to thank everyone for responding to the request that was posted on this site. One fellow DSM owner had mentioned writing letters to the various automobile magazines. I would strongly suggest you do that. It may end up turning into negative articles for the respective automobile manufacturers. I have included a very short list of automotive trade sites that I found on the internet with their e-mail addresses. If you do get some responses from the letters you write please contact me as I will want to know that someone was able to get some satisfaction.

On a closing note, the staff at Road Race Engineering have been extremely helpful and informative and I would encourage all of you to support their web site.

Turbo Magazine
Turbo & High Tech Performance
Popular Mechanics
Motor Sports Digest
Auto World Weekly
Special Car Journal

From the Talon Digest Archives:

Subject: Crank Shaft died at 30 miles- I won't buy another
From: Keith Chu
Date: 19 Feb 97 11:27:00

This is long, I loved the car, I love driving it now, but the events of the past few months leaves me to question the longevity of my car and Chrysler's definition of "Quality Customer Service" I'm sorry to say that I will never ever by another Chrysler product again. This covers Jeep, eagle, Chrysler, dodge, Plymouth. Why? Well tell me if I'm insane or what, but here's the story. At 30 k miles my 95 talon TSi developed a problem shifting. This problem developed over 5k miles and I was able to reproduce the problem. During or after a left hand turn, the car would have a lot of difficulties shifting. the clutch peddle felt as if it lost all hydraulic pressure and would affect the gear shifting.

I took it to a dealer at 35k. They looked at the problem and after a week replaced the clutch slave cylinder. There was also a ticking noise under the hood. They said it was just normal fuel injector noise and maybe I never heard it before. The car was returned to me with the same problem with a note on the invoice saying that if the problem was not fixed, that I have to replace the clutch!!! A clutch at 30k! Normal Injector noise? I called the Chrysler Customer Service Line and I got this person who couldn't do or tell me anything other than if you don't want to replace the clutch you must get a second opinion. There was no managers or others to speak to. Just this person who couldn't do anything. I went to another dealer ( the one I bought the car from 75 mi from home). the had the car for a day and said it didn't sound like a clutch, the the ticking noise was really worrying them. I made an appointment with them.

They had the car for a month! They replaced the Slave cylinder (again) as well as a fuel purge valve, timing belt tensioner, water pump, and some other parts. This was about all Chrysler gave them authorization to do. The car was returned to me with the same problem!!!!! Yet again I returned the car to them. After another week, Chrysler finally gave them the approval to open up the transmission. Everything there was "in spec" They opened up the engine and found the thrust (sp) bearing and crank shaft really worn with enough play to throw it out of spec. they replaced the parts and the car runs ok now (with a little rough idle, I will have this looked at later). All of my friends I spoke to said " They didn't replace the engine???" Well no they didn't. I take religious care of my engine. Mobil 1 every 3k. Redline MTL in the Trans. Plugs, filters when stated in the manual under severe conditions even though I do 80 miles a day with 75% of that being cruising on the highway. I warm the car up, I cool it off for a minute after all driving. I noticed that the oil pressure is much lower now than every before. (it's probably normal now and was really high before ( at 70mph at 3k rpm the needle was about 1/4-1/8 of an inch below maximum.) I sent a letter to Chrysler explaining the situation and asked for one of the following: Extend (or give me the option) of extending the warranty past 5/75mi Give me a new engine. Something they can come up with. I'll sell the car. Unfortunately I can't afford to sell the car, but I wish I could.

Dennis from customer service called me last week and told me "You made a few requests. We certainly won't honor any of them" No letter, no explanation, just no. Pretty rude I thought. I bought the car to last me 150-200k mi with normal maintenance and parts failure. I didn't expect the crankshaft to go. It makes me wonder about the collateral damage from this. I know the piston rods are made to move in one direction lets say front to back. Certainly not side to side which I can see being an issue if the crank shaft has too much play. yes, things may be clean and within specs now, but how much extra damage could this have caused?

A month ago, I went to the dealer to order a radiator hose, and while I was there I walked to the service bays and started chatting with a tech working on a 95' GST. I asked him what was wrong with it and he said the crankshaft was "walking". I didn't know what that meant, so he showed me: he had the crankshaft exposed and he pressed a screwdriver between the rods and pushed the crankshaft back and forth by maybe 10 mm. The crank, apparently, is NOT supposed to move horizontally at all. He showed me a spot where there should have been a journal bearing, and the apparent lack thereof on this engine. The whole crank was being replaced along with all new bearings.

Recently, I went to the dealer to replace an airbag, and while I was there, I chatted with the same tech about what he was doing. He had a 97' Spyder GST on the lift and he was removing the crankshaft. I asked him why and he told me it was "walking". I thought that was strange that another car was in for the same thing, and it wasn't even the same year. He told me it was the third car that month with the same problem. He pulled down the crankshaft and showed me the bearings that surround this middle section of the crankshaft. The bearing had horizontal wear marks. This car, too, was getting a new crankshaft and all new bearings.

The symptoms in all the cases seemed to be problems with putting the car into gear. The transmissions in all cases were fine. The problem was faulty crankshaft bearings. The tech told me the factory must have had a bad run of bearings.

Has anyone else heard of this problem? I wonder if there are any with this problem and have had it misdiagnosed.

Paul Estevez ran across crank problems on 2G cars at his dealership. My friend just had all the crank bearings replaced in his '95 and the dealer had just done another. I listened to another '95 at a tech session in Dallas and the front of his motor would make noise when the clutch was engaged/disengaged...bad thrust bearing on the crank. Doesn't sound good for you 2G guys.

On another note...My Transfer Case Recall notice was waiting for me in the mail when I

Subject: [2G,T] Crankshaft Failures 2: This time it's personal
From: Pre
Date: 28 Jul 1998 23:42:14

About a month ago, I posted my recent observations of crankshaft failures occurring with the 2G turbo motor. I had personally witnessed the tear down of a 95 GST and then a 97 GST motor for the removal of the crankshaft, the journal bearings, and the rod bearings. I thought to myself "Wow, would you look at that" and then dutifully posted my query to the digest: "Has anyone else had this problem?" I got a few responses, mostly horror stories of problems never corrected until the crankshaft was removed and replaced. I thought "man, I empathize with those poor souls" "Crankshaft failures come to those who wait"

My car had just turned 60,491 miles on the odometer. I was in a parking lot looking for a spot, when I heard a weird noise. I turn down the radio to hear whose piece of sh!t car was making that weird noise, when I discover it's MY piece of sh!t car making that weird noise. HEHEHEH. I jump out of the car and open the hood to listen intently when I realize the noise is coming from underneath the timing belt cover.

HEHEHEHH. The noise is like a tapping noise that varies with RPM. Forget my appointment, I'm going to the dealer to find out what the hell that noise is. I leave the parking lot and begin the 5 mile trek to the dealership. I get about 200 feet when I hear a "snap". HAHHAHAHHAHHAHAH

Now, this is the single, defining moment of my relationship with my 95' GST. I have always taken excellent care of my car. I changed almost everything under the timing belt cover at 50,000 miles. I don't drag race it and I drive it hard, but with care. Oil at 3000 mile intervals (Mobil 1 since the first oil change) and already changed the tranny fluid. The only meanness I've inflicted is a 16G turbo, and only at 15 psi. thus far. I am a GOOD owner. Back to the "snap" About one full second after I hear this snap, I turn off the ignition and pull over. I was only moving at 15 mph when it happened, so I come to a full stop in about 5 feet. Now, the panic ensues. "What the hell is going on here! This kind of crap only happens to people on the digest!" [meant to be read tongue in cheek] I run to a pay phone and call AAA for a flat bed. Now, this post is already turning out to be a novel, so I will spare the details and give all 2G owners these pieces of advice:

~If you have a 2G, check to see if you have tow hooks. I DO NOT have tow hooks and thus was unable to utilize a flat bed. I don't know why my car is missing tow hooks. I bought it new and I didn't remove them.

~If you lower your car REALLY low, with H&R race springs for example, count on a fiasco the next time you are sent any sort of tow truck.

You may have guessed that I went through a fiasco. While waiting for the tow truck, I decide to remove the timing belt cover to either confirm or deny my latent fear: a snapped timing belt. I remove the cover and notice the belt appears completely intact.

HAHAHHAHAHA Four glorious hours later, I'm on my way to the dealership with my car in tow. On the way, I start to ponder a few consequences. My car's power train warranty EXPIRED 491 miles ago. My car has a 16G turbo and a test pipe fitted. Those are NOT original equipment items. This trip to the dealer is going to cost me more than a complete makeover for Janet Reno. It's now 5 pm and the service department is closing. I made a few friends in the pool of techs months ago, so they run a few tests after hours. A 17mm wrench turns the cam sprockets and reveals that the car's mechanical timing is perfect. Also, the timing belt is in excellent condition, as it should be after 10,491 miles. We turn the key and the car turns over, but it won't start. hmmmmmm. They test for injector pulsewidth and coil ignition, and neither is firing. That's why the car won't start. hmmmmm. Why would the car be in time, turn over just fine without any odd noises, but the injectors NOT fire and the coils NOT fire? Among the possible answers is a broken crank angle sensor or cam angle sensor or both.

Fast forward to yesterday. The tech pulled off the timing belt covers, the crankshaft pulley, and all else necessary to expose the crank angle sensor. For those who don't know, the crank angle sensor is basically two poles with a field between them. When that field is disrupted by a projection of metal on the trigger plate (which is behind the crankshaft pulley and turns at the same rate as the crank and pulley), the crank angle sensor reads rpm and sends signals to the ECU for it to decide which ignition coil to fire when, and how to fire the injectors. Well, I took a nice long look at my trigger plate and I noticed there were plastic shavings on it. The trigger plate had come in CONTACT with the crank angle sensor. That's what that the tapping noise was. The SNAP I heard was the damn sensor breaking into little pieces. Why did all of these things happen?

Apparently, the factory had a bad run of CRANKSHAFTS, not bearings. The crankshafts were machined just slightly out of spec, and as a result the main center thrust bearing on the crankshaft wears prematurely. When this happens, the crankshaft will move or "walk" every time the clutch pedal is depressed. Some people have complained of difficulty in getting the car into gear (manual transmissions) and the diagnosis has been the same: a "walking" crankshaft. Well, it seems my crankshaft walked so much that it pushed the crank sprocket and the trigger plate forward and caused the trigger plate to come in contact with the crank sensor.

The bottom line is this is a factory defect. I get a new crankshaft, journal bearings, rod bearings, trigger plate, crank angle sensor, and crankshaft sprocket (along with a few others I can't remember) installed for free, regardless of my mileage. John Hindle made a very good point in a post recently. Make friends at your local dealership. Find out who is competent and who is not. Be friendly and courteous and stop by even when you DON'T have a problem. Get to know the service manager. I've been doing this for the last two years, and when I arrived with my car in tow, the service manager already knew my financial concerns about my warranty and put them to rest. He told me that Mitsubishi rewards those customers who spend the extra dollars to buy the higher models. As a service manager, he has leeway in deciding which repairs he will cover and which he will NOT cover. Now, if I hadn't been coming to him with comments and concerns etc., and he hadn't known how well I take care of my car, there is no way he would have covered a 16G equipped GST that is out of powertrain coverage. But, my situation is different. He knows me and thinks my car is "cool". He made it clear that no matter WHAT was wrong with the car, any and all repairs would be warranty repairs BEFORE the car was even off the tow truck. It may be worth your while to extend a courteous handshake to those in a position to save you money.

Subject: Re: [2G,T] Crankshaft Failures 2: This time it's personal
From: Pre
Date: 30 Jul 1998 20:43:50

It seems my little tirade on Crankshaft failures has a few of you worried. Well, you should be. If I had been on a road trip somewhere and I had a serious mechanical failure, well, I would probably feel like Todd Day and Tom Stangl.

There is no particular production range affected. Any 2G with a turbo motor may or may not be affected. According to the tech working on my car, there is currently a Technical Service Bulletin for this problem. Note, this is not the same as a recall. They aren't even obligated to check for this problem. You will not get anything in the mail. You, like me, may not get much warning of the impending failure. On a more positive note, at least your timing belt won't SNAP and bend all your valves :) Small comfort. It gets a little more dismal. If your dealership has a bad record of warranty repairs, they may not "notice" any problems with your crankshaft. I wonder if there are any AWD or GSX owners among you who have gone to the dealer to get your yoke replaced and/or checked for leaks only to be told that "everything is fine, be on your way" with just a cursory inspection? You have to find a dealer that actually wants to fix cars and has the personnel to do it. That might be harder than it sounds, but I've seen plenty of positive notes about dealers from posters to the digest. This tiny little problem with BAD CRANKSHAFTS might be worth going to a few dealers to get them to check for a problem. Explain there is a Technical Service Bulletin already out there for it.

~all warranty work must have the original, faulty part returned to mitsubishi for reimbursement.

~it's not easy to spot a real LEAK from an AWD or GSX transfer case. (alright now, just calm down and read on) It's very easy for a technician to look at the overspray and misdiagnose it as a normal condition stemming from some other component in the car (maybe like a leaky oil return line) and thus refuse to service a yoke with a genuine leak.

~the factory 2G pressure plate is quite strong. Strong enough to push a crankshaft out of line.

~lots of people incorrectly string the timing belt over the intake cam (rear cam) and then the exhaust cam (front cam) and then press the tensioner pulley into the belt causing the sprockets to turn and retard the mechanical timing. This assumes people don't use clips to hold the belt to the cam sprockets.

~one balance shaft spins at 3 times the speed of the crank and the other at exactly the same rate.

~During the early production of 1G's, an individual at the factory let something akin to liquid sandpaper "fall" into the production process for engine blocks. Six years ago, a dealer he worked for replaced 25 1G shortblocks.

~3000GT VR4 transmissions are NOT rebuildable. If there is a problem, the whole thing MUST be replaced at a cost of $6000 to mitsubishi. (I saw one VR4 tranny with a dime sized hole in it waiting to go back to Germany)

My car is now awaiting rod bearings which will arrive tomorrow. I'm considering using a digital camera to take pictures of my old crank and the rod and main journal bearings, even though the bearings themselves don't show very much horizontal wear, as opposed to the 97' GST I saw with LOTS of horizontal wear. Then there is my trigger plate (also called a back plate) with the crank sensor shavings on it. Would anyone want to see that? Does anyone have any experience with the ACT street disc? I'm not talking about the pressure plate, just the disc. Has anyone replaced JUST the disc?

Subject: [2G, awd] Crankshaft defects
From: Alex Harris
Date: 6 Aug 1998 18:52:51

I have a 97 GSX that I took into the dealer on Tuesday to replace what diagnosed as a faulty throwout bearing. I picked up the car around 3:30 today from the dealer and the work slip had a work description that went like this. Lateral movement in engine SOP parts Crankshaft has lateral movement in it Replace short ASSY

There was also a list of parts all under warranty work that was done. (this is exactly what was on the sheet)

I saw Paul's post (#16 in the digest for 08/29/98) about his experience with his car. Now I wasn't informed about any of the work that was being done, I didn't talk to any of the service guys at the dealership as I had to get back to work so I grabbed the slip and I was on my way back to work. Has anyone have this work done yet?

Subject: [2G,T] Crankshaft failure TSB; 1G vs. 2G sensor differences
From: Paul Estevez
Date: 14 Sep 1998 13:39:28

Many have emailed me requesting the technical service bulletin information regarding the weakening of crankshaft bearings and the subsequent shift of the crankshaft, as it applies to 1995-1998 turbo 2.0 liter DSMs. The reason I can't find the TSB in the dealer's records is there has not yet been a TSB written for this problem. The District service manager for the southeast said they were in the process of writing the TSB for the Eclipses and Talons. There is already a TSB in effect for certain 3000GT's, but I'm not sure which models specifically since I breezed past the information sheets for them looking for DSM TSB's.

This problem is very real. If you have experienced a problem with your crank angle sensor on your 2G, turbo, then you should be aware that the problem may lay with the crankshaft "walking".

On a related note, I and several readers have always been confused when someone with a 1G says we all have one all inclusive sensor that reads camshaft angle as well as crankshaft angle, and that sensor is located on the passenger side of the intake camshaft. This is indeed the case with 90-94 DSM's. However, 95-98 turbo DSM's have two separate sensors: one to read cam angle, located on the driver's side of the intake camshaft for the 95-96 models and located on the passenger side of the intake camshaft (same as 1G) for 97 and maybe 98? (not sure about 98'), and one to read crankshaft angle. 2G turbo DSMs have a completely separate crankshaft angle sensor located adjacent to the crankshaft sprocket reading its signal via a "trigger plate" or a "back plate" depending on which shop manual you read. When the crankshaft "walks", it pushes the backplate into the crank sensor causing it to fail (literally, it tears through the sensor). The approximate cost for a new crank angle sensor for a 2G turbo is between $40-$70. The part number for the crank angle sensor for a 2G turbo is MD 300101. If your crank sensor has suddenly failed, the chances that the sensor has done so on its own, with no mechanical factors to effect that failure in the first 60,000 miles, are low. If you have taken apart your car to replace the crank sensor, look to see if there are plastic shavings on the trigger plate, where the plate has actually contacted the sensor itself. To replace the sensor alone is a short term fix, if your crankshaft is walking. Getting to the crank sensor is a lengthy process since the timing belt and all else has to come off. You might even use the opportunity to change your timing belt.

With regard to warranties. As I have come to understand the meaning of "TSB", there is no obligation to pay for the failure of a factory component if you have exceeded your powertrain warranty or an extended powertrain warranty that applies. So, if you didn't buy an extended warranty and you are over 60k, and your crankshaft is walking, you'll be replacing the crank, bearings, and sensor on your own nickel. If you are under 60k, find a dealer whose service manager has heard of the problem and is actually WILLING to fix the problem if you have it. If you are doing the work yourself, remember to order the crankshaft first, then read the color marks on the crank to identify which SPECIFIC bearings should be used with that particular crankshaft. There are several iterations of crankshafts, and the color marks identify which specific bearing sizes will fit correctly.

I have a 95 GSX Automatic with 52k miles. I have added an upper IC pipe and 1G bov along with the K&N airfilter. The car is now at the dealer with a ruined thrust bearing which requires a new crank and bearings. It is going to cost around $2300 to fix. The dealer and Mitsubishi refuse to honor the 60k mile power train warranty due to my modifications. They are blaming me for their defective crankshaft. I have spoken to Mitsubishi customer service, the dealer's service manager, the dealer's manager and anyone else who will listen but have gotten nowhere. Can anyone offer any suggestions? Anything at all is greatly appreciated.

Subject: [2G, T] The reason for the Crank problems
From: Liteprose
Date: 30 Apr 1999 20:23:13

Perhaps it's due to the transmission being fastened a little more sturdily to the unibody and not able to free float with the engine as much as the 1G cars did Interesting theory, but that's not why the crank walks. It walks because of one of two reasons, or possibly both: Either the OEM crankshafts have been machined slightly out of spec, resulting in premature failure of the center thrust bearing OR the factory bearings, including but not limited to the center thrust bearing, are inherently flawed due to a bad run by the manufacturer. In either case, the best course of action is to replace the bearings (rod bearings, mains, and the thrust bearing), as well as the crankshaft itself. In some cases, the damage is so severe, the block too must be replaced. My block didn't need replacement, but everything else did, including my crank angle sensor, and trigger plate.

But this is all in the archives. I still don't have a TSB number for this problem, but then I haven't been very aggressive about following up on one either. I will redouble my efforts because I think everyone with a 2G should be aware of this problem. Incidentally, my car is a 95', and I have seen 95-97 turbo models affected, both AWD and FWD; meaning, I watched the dealer replace cranks and bearings on 95s, 96s, and 97s. The 98-99 models may also be affected.

It is truly upsetting that the manufacturer could fail us so miserably by sacrificing two key ingredients in a high performance engine: accuracy and precision. If I wasn't so knee deep in mods, I might have backed out of the 2G's altogether.

Okay this is for the archives. I just got my car back this past
Friday from Sheehy Mitsubishi in Manasas (Va). Butch the service
manager there did a good job in fixing a crankshaft bearing failure on
my car. This failure has been documented before I just wanted to add
my story to flesh out the problem for other members of the digest. Oh
I have a 1995 GSX with 50k.

The following is the tale of my saga (it's long), but I do have one
question. I have Tokico 5 ways and when fixing my engine Sheehy
happened to loose one of the plastic dials which go on top of the shock
for the adjustment. Where can I get a replacement? What I am talking
about is not the plastic disk which goes around the adjusting threads,
but the little insert with the arrow on it that you actually turn to
adjust the shocks. I didn't know this would come out, but you can
actually lift it out of the shock.

About 1-2 months ago I noticed that the engine was ticking and when
I pushed the clutch in the ticking would get louder. The idle ticking
was pretty low, I could only hear it when I was outside the car
standing by the hood or with the hood up. The ticking with the clutch
in was audible from inside the car. Also the clutch pedal would
sometimes stay depressed or would be very (like 3-5 seconds) slow in
coming up when pressing it in.

I thought the ticking (which seemed to come from the timing belt
area) was because my car needed a new timing belt. I thought the
clutch sometimes not coming up was due to the need for a new clutch. I
did the timing belt, and still had the ticking, I was going to get a
new clutch and then on a lark I searched the archives about the
crankshaft bearing failure (I had read about it before and thought
maybe that was what I had). Well after reading about it I thought
maybe that was my problem. I called Sheehy Mitsu up and told Butch my
problem and he said to bring it in and that I probably had the
crankshaft problem.

I brought it in and to see if I had the problem the techs just
listened to the engine as one of them pushed the clutch in. After like
1 minute they came back and said that I had the crankshaft problem and
that they'd have to put in a new short block.
So after 5 working days, Sheehy got my car back with a new short
block. It's not new new, the block I think is used but the pistons,
rings, crankshaft, bearings are new (that's what Butch said). Anyways
it runs fine now, although I've only driven it 300 miles and haven't
wound it out yet (got to break it in like a new engine). Sheehy did a
decent job, Butch is a straight shooter and good service manager and
mod friendly (I have a pretty trick suspension and intake, upper
intercooler). The workmanship was alright, with my main complaint
being the loss of my Tokico plastic adjusting thingy. The first time I
picked it up the check engine light came on due to a loose vacuum hose.

Other than that, everything looks pretty good.
Anyways, hope this helps some other unlucky 2g'er diagnose their
problem. I'm just glad it happened at 51k before the 60k powertrain
warranty ran out. It isn't that bad when you think about it, I got
half a new engine (I don't think they did anything to the head).

I have seen several 2G cars with bad crank thrust bearings. This is obviously
a factory defect either in the bearings or the crank.

However, another thing to think about is the loads imposed on the crank when
you push in the clutch. With the heavy duty pressure plates, these loads can
be pretty high. Now, think what the load is like on the crank thrust bearing
during start up when there is no oil pressure. I have seen Mustangs destroy
crank thrust main bearings using stiff clutch pressure plates.

I have not seen this be a problem in DSM's yet but I for one have taken the
precaution of bypassing the clutch safety switch so I can start the car with
the clutch out in neutral. Do this at your own risk however as the car will
lurch forward if you forget and leave it in gear. It's not a problem for me
having driven many clutch cars with no safety switch. It's natural for me to
pop the car in neutral before starting.

I am the proud owner of a copper colored 2g GS-T, who recently had the
crankshaft and all main bearings replaced because of a walking crank. The
work was done at the dealer approx. three weeks ago and everything has been
running fine except that now whenever I shift into third gear it occasionaly
pops out ( I would say 3 out of 10 shifts). I am wonder what the possible
causes could be and if it has anything to do with the previous work done on
the car. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hi all,
I still have the crankshaft problem as described in the archives, but
none of the dealerships in my area that I have checked have ever
heard of this problem. Is there anyone close to or in the area of
Vancouver, BC, Canada that has had this problem fixed on their
95 AWD TSi? Is there anyone at Chrysler that I can call? The
ticking noise is annoying and I find it very dangerous when my clutch
pedal does not return up. These dealerships won't even look at the
info I printed off the archives.

Also ever since I had my water pump, timing belt, and valve cover
gasket replaced last month my car has been idling rough and at WOT
the car vibrates a lot. I know the vibration is not from the wheels
because I had them balanced and aligned last week. Does anyone know
what is causing these problems, especially the vibration which is
very noticeable?

Subject: Crank Thrust Bearing Nightmare (2g, T)
From: Carl Vonnegut
Date: 21 Jun 1999 23:02:30

Well, my `95 Tsi AWD is now on its THIRD shortblock after suffering the
dreaded crankshaft thrust bearing failure TWICE...now with 400 miles on the
latest block, the symptoms of yet ANOTHER failed bearing are appearing once
again!

It all started in late April when I noticed that shifting was becoming
difficult...the clutch was not disengaging fully. My car had 52500 miles on
it with about 12K miles on the ACT 2100 clutch...(the other mods I have are
16G, exhaust, I/C piping, etc). The Mitsu dealership that installed the ACT
2100 took a look at the problem and diagnosed it as a failed out crank thrust
bearing. Since I was beyond warranty, I had to foot the $4K repair bill for a
re-manned shortblock out of my own pocket...needless to say this sucked. The
Mitsu dealer claimed that the re-manned shortblock had all the latest factory
"fixes" in it...like using dual flanged crank bearings to handle thrust loads
versus the single bearing style.

Well after putting about 350 easygoing miles on the second shortblock, I
started to have shifting difficulties again...sure enough the crank bearing
was shot AGAIN! Luckily the re-manned block was under warranty, but Mitsu
dealer would not warranty this third shortblock unless I agreed the take out
the ACT 2100 and go back to a factory clutch. I agreed to this as a sort of
insurance policy...if the new block failed, I would at least be covered.
Sure enough after only 400 miles on this latest block, I am having clutch and
shifting difficulties again...this time with the stock, wimpy clutch! What
the hell could be causing this failure? The symptoms are: 1) increased clutch
efforts 2) more difficult shifting as the clutch engagement point floats
around (since the crank is floating with it). In each case oil pressure seems
to be fine. When I initially got the car back, the clutch efforts and
shifting were fine...it only got worse after the first 300-400 miles.

Are there any ideas out there as to what this problem might be? Some sort of
severe trans / engine block misalignment problem? Any problems with people
running ACT 2600's with 2g's specific to crank bearing failures?

I have a 95 GSX that has eaten two thrust bearings and two cranks. My next step is to replace the entire block. I do no think that I got two bad cranks in a row nor do I think that I got 2 bad sets of bearings. All the clearances were ok on the machine work. So the only thing that I believe is left is to replace the block. I have replaced the block once already after I roached a piston and it destroyed the first block-I purchased a used one and ever since then I have eaten two thrust bearings and two cranks in about 2200 miles. I have recently been informed that this is has surfaced before because there was a bad batch of blocks that were produced in 95 that had a thrust area that was badly designed. I now hope that after this it repair my nightmares will be over---either that or the car is going off a cliff. So I am asking two things with this post--does anyone have a 2G block and crank-a 2G shortblock-or any information on fitting a 1G block to a 2G.

Subject: the evil noise has been EXERCISED
From: Chad Merritt
Date: 26 Jul 1999 11:46:52

I would like to thank everyone that sent suggestions to the evil rattling noise that I had in my motor. I'm embarrassed to say what it was, but I feel obligated to post it since so many people sent me suggestions. First off, I was completely wrong about where the noise was originating from. It was coming from the pan, not the top, sounded like the top end of the motor. So that threw all my diagnostics off. Well, I finally admitted I was in WAY over my head and had the car brought to my mechanic.

He called today with the problem... The problem was the crank bearings. They were too small. I KNOW, I should have used plastigauge to check bearing clearances. But I didn't. A while back I had a crank kit put in the car because the thrust bearing went bad and the crank was walking. Well, I was under the impression that a crank kit meant a new crank. And since that was only about 30k miles ago, I figured the crank was okay. Well, a crank kit is NOT a new crank, it's a turned crank, so the bearings are .020 over. So, the sound was my stock sized bearings rattling in around a crank that was .020 smaller.

Fortunately, I didn't do any damage to my "refreshed motor". Guess that will teach me to check ALL the clearances next time. All in all, for my first motor rebuild, I only screwed one thing up :)

>I have a (new to me) '95 Talon AWD with 32,000mi on it. In the last
>month or so I have noticed that when I make a sudden (sometimes
>not so sudden) left hand turn the clutch peddle becomes very mushy
>and won't return completely unless I raise it with my foot. Any help
>would be appreciated since I have never had a car with a hydraulic clutch before.

Sorry for the bad news but that is one of the indications of a walking crankshaft. When you make a hard left turn, the crank is so loose that it flops to the right towards the transmission. The clutch pushes the throw out bearing back and that pushes the clutch slave cylinder back in just a bit. When you go to push the clutch in, there is a bunch of extra travel in the pedal when the throw out bearing pushes the crank back first and then releases the clutch.

When I first heard of this happening, I thought the guy was nuts. Right up until I drove it and felt it my self.

-A ticking noise from the crankshaft pulley area with the clutch depressed. Kind of a swooshing tickey noise. This is the crankshaft position sensor trigger plate rubbing on the crankshaft position sensor. The desired clearance (possible movement of the crankshaft side to side) is between .002" and .007" with a maximum of .010". For the trigger plate to rub on the sensor it is moving more like .030".

-Stalling when the clutch is depressed. The trigger plate and crankshaft have been moving so much that the trigger plate is wearing through the sensor. It takes .050" to .060" for this to occur.

-Bearing particles in the oil filter. When you change your oil, keep the filter and cut it open. Look for lots of little flat flakes of metal in it. With the crankshaft grinding away at the thrust bearing, pieces of bearing and crank trash are flowing through the motor. This will tear up the other bearings and can even get up in the head and score up the cam journals.

To check for the side to side free play, get the car up on jack stands. Take off the plastic cover at the crank pulley. Pry against the frame rail to get the crank pulley pushed towards the transmission. Have an assistant push the clutch. Watch to see how much the pulley moves back towards the frame rail. If you can see movement, you are probably screwed. Time to do some more accurate measurement. If you have access to a dial indicator, you could set it up on the back side of the flywheel at the bottom. Remove the transfer case and the lower cover for access.

So far here in So Cal I have seen 10 walking cranks in 2Gs in the last year. I've talked to another 5 people in the last 2 months over the phone from other states with bad cranks too. A big 2600 lb clutch wont help things any but I have seen it on 15K to 20K mile cars with stock clutches and a few on CF DFs also. The most recent was a 98 with 20K miles and a CF clutch. Internet lore pegs the walking crank on certain 95s, most I have seen were on 96s and a few 97s and the one 98. Most get it fixed under warranty after returning the car to stock as much as possible. Some cars are either too far gone with lots of mods or too much mileage to be covered under warranty that they just buy a complete used motor for the cheap way out.

According to Center Force, the T/O bearing pressure for the stock clutch is 405 lbs. The Center Force clutch is only 450 lbs. Not much more than stock and going by feel about the same as a worn stock clutch. I'd hate to think what the pressure is on a ACT 2600 pressure plate.

What causes it ? I've heard a bad batch of bearings or bad tolerances on a run of crankshafts was the cause. Having the problem spread out over so many years kind of refutes that. There seems to be a 50% failure rate with motors that are rebuilt and not replaced. In the factory manual there are 5 pages of complete gibberish on choosing the correct main and rod bearings for the crank. If Mitsu cant get it right at the factory, what are your chances for sucess doing it yourself ?

We just put a 2G motor that had a walking crank together with some additional mods to the thrust bearing. We tried cutting a small groove in the bearing journal under the bearing to direct some oil to the clutch side of the thrust face. We drilled a few small oil holes to try to get better oiling to the thrust face. We also disabled the clutch switch so that the motor can be started with out pushing in the clutch. Just trying all the little things that might help. We wont know for some time if it does.

Subject: RE: Fuel prices and walking cranks From: Kanser Joseph A SrA 96 CG < Date: 8 Mar 2000 11:18:44 Message-ID: <#26>

Now for the topic of crankwalk. having recently traded in my 1996 Eagle Talon TSi due to this same reason, I can sympathize with all of you. I had spent thousands on aftermarket upgrades and maintenance on my car, only to have that all go to waste because my vehicle manufacturer wants to keep from going bankrupt due to a faulty power train design. I had contacted MMC and NHTSA, but did not receive any help from either. I definitely didn't have the funds to get a lawyer and try to seek compensation or force a recall. So, I ultimately put the car back to stock and traded it in for a 1999 Toyota Solara SE, which I am now trying to get turned in due to it having major paint work done during delivery without my knowledge and is now peeling. My point in this is that it will definitely take more than one person for Mitsu or NHTSA to perk their ears up and take notice. So, if everyone wants to get serious, organize a serious email campaign or something else that will get their attention and work from there. Good luck, and hopefully things will turn out better for you than they did for me. Joe Kanser

Subject: [2G,T] Things to read when you've run out of NyQuil From: Paul Estevez <> Date: 09 Mar 2000 13:22:25 Message-ID: <#4>

Far be it from me to compete with the saucy, but jaundiced diction of today's digest postings, but after reading a recent issue, I noticed there were a lot of questions into which I am able to share some limited insight. If you own a 95-99 turbo dsm, the following is relevant. I owned a 95 GS-T for 4 years, and this is what I came to realize.

The crank walk issue: If you are among those cursed with this enigma, you have a few choices:

~Repair the problem. The one way to fix this is: Buy a new crankshaft. Whatever happens, don't have your old crank turned. You must throw it away anyway. With your new crank in hand, read the color codes on the crank as well as the engine codes under the block (have a competent mitsu tech help you) and look to the engine rebuild shop manual to decipher the correct main bearings to use with your SPECIFIC crankshaft/engine block combination. Don't screw this up, you'll have to tear it all down again if you do. Use new rod bearings, the revised design center thrust bearing (this is the bearing that fails, allowing the crank to walk), a new trigger plate for the crank sensor, a new crank sensor, and new timing belt items that need replacing, since you're in there anyway. This information was obtained via the Mitsubishi tech line, and was the resolution to my crank walk problem, which never resurfaced.

The most important lesson learned from driving my dsm was that I did not own a reliable, trouble-free automobile. I owned a dsm. It's quirky, just like all the dsm owners I've ever known. You have to maintain it with a zeal unmatched by other enthusiasts. Buy new OEM parts, and never chance a "funny" noise, of which there will be many. This is important because unfortunately, Mitsubishi is NOT on your side. Your only refuge is the preponderance of information on the web, the shop manual at your side, and the wind in your hair.

After taking my lightly modded 95 GSX to satan for an Act clutch upgrade, they informed me that I have the dreaded walking crank. Sadly this is after a recent spurt of suspension upgrades for solo 2. I've been a member of the digest for almost 3 years, so I've heard a lot about the problem. Here are my questions: Some people get the crank and bearings, others get a new short-block. Is a new short block the only way to be sure that the problem doesn't reoccur? Satan quoted $3600 for short-block and labor. What's a good price? Is there a reliable place to get good short-blocks for 2gs? (I really don't want to do THIS work myself.) Doesn't this sort of thing only happen to 'the other guy'? ;) Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Great digest Todd, keep up the good work! Kent Davis Babyied gsx for 5 years, and now this!

-----Original Message-----From:Andreas Santoso [mailto:]Sent:Monday, May 01, 2000 11:33 AMTo:Subject:Re: [nwdsm] Weekend fun

Corey, I heard about the news from Cam on Sunday. I told my wife the bad news over dinner, there was a quiet moment for a while, as if someone had died. Yeah, DSM is one of our favorite dinner topic. I was so surprised, so it is true that Renton Mitsu don't know shit when it comes to DSMs. That car has been plagued with so much trouble when I first adopted it. First, a huge crack on the original block causing oil leaks that made us went back and forth to the dealer before they finally agreed to eat the cost of a new short block and all the install to the tune of about $5500 - all eaten by MMCA...then we went back and forth 6 times after that cause the water pump is still leaking - bad install, believe it or not Corey, that water pump laying on your garage floor is water pump number 3.. I would have fix it myself, but it is their BAD job and I demand that they fix it. Now this....crank walk in a brand new replacement block!. Don't those dummy in there know how to rebuild an engine properly??? If it is any consolation, they (Renton Mitsu) also FUBAR the engine rebuild in Greg Hightower GVR4 the first time around too - conrod #1 bearing is seized up in there.. The reason for the crank walk is because the super mechanic that put it together failed to match up the right size bearings to the crankshaft. The 7 bolts cranks are known to have the production defect from factory and therefore it requires special attention to matching the right size bearings to it. Can't just slap any standard bearings. My tip is is just take your time and read the DSM manual - they have a very long section where it is detailed how to choose the correct size bearings.. And make sure you have matched up and order the proper bearing size for the new crankshaft. You would think that a Mitsu dealer know how to do this properly huh? I don't have an answer to question #2. By any means buy the crankshaft from one of the many discount dealers around.....Since it is an expensive item, around $500, I would suggest calling *several* of them around and see who has the cheapest price. Try Para Mitsu in Irvine Texas, I heard they have a really good base line price (discount rate doesn't mean anything if the baseline price is higher.) I feel deeply sorry for you - that could have been my wrist that we are talking about. Andre C Sattler wrote: > Fri- > > Cam stops by. We start to disassemble the car in preparation to pull > the motor and tranny. New CFDF, t-belt stuff, front crank seal, etc. > Have some Chinese and Pyramid, and pull/disconnect some more. Quit > about 10:00. > > Sat- > > Cam's back around 9:00 and we go to town. Finally remove and disconnect > enough stuff to start actually taking out tranny. As tranny is trying > to come out, Cam looks at me and says, "Remind me to tell you the bad > news later." > > "WHAT!!!!" I glare at him with my > you-better-tell-me-or-no-more-beer-for-you look. > > "Well, you have crank walk. See?" as he moves the flywheel around with > the pry bar. > > I proceed to try not and cut my wrists. > > So, later that afternoon, we get the tranny and motor out, pull the pan > and girdle (what a monster!), and look at the remains of my crank. One > side of the thrust bearing is just not there hardly anymore, and the > crank is scored/buggered up/FUBAR'd big time. I start doing the very > unhappy daze and drink more beer. > > What really makes me happy about the whole deal is that the short block > was REPLACED BY THE FACTORY about 17,000 miles ago. > #$*&#@$%*&@$#%*^@#$*%^@#$*^%$#^*&%$#*&$#%*&#$@*&%@*#$%& Bastards! > > So, gonna have to get a new crank and bearings. Nothing else appears to > be damaged. Cyl walls are perfect, wrist pins don't seem to move in any > odd directions, rods are good (bearings are shot though), and the crank > didn't eat the block yet. All in all, it could have been worse, but I > still ain't a happy camper. > > My questions at this time are: > > #1 What is the popular consensus as to what causes this? > > #2 Can I reuse the rod bolts to re-attach the caps? > > #3 Any special instructions or tips when putting this back together? > Andre - you should have something for me in this department. > > #4 Anyone got any feelings about where to get a new crank & > main/rod/thrust bearings really fast? > > #5 Anyone want to feel sorry for me? :'o( > > -- > Corey Sattler > Dead BCA > 95 GSX > Really neat paper weight shaped like a crank. ----------------------------------------------------------

7/00 Roy Navarez had a crank walk on his '95 AWD at 55,000 miles and the dealership replaced it under an extended warranty in 2/00. 6/30/00 he was driving on the freeway and a rod let go in the new motor. Looks like a rod nut was left loose.

Subject: Crank Walk / Cleaning Exhaust Out [2g]
From:
Date: 5 Jul 2000 18:03:10 Message-ID: <#18>

The thrust bearing shows MAJOR wear, and the crank has a groove in it to boot. So, off to Conicelli for a new crank ($480), new main bearings (~$80), new rod bearings (~$60), new t.o. bearing ($20), new clutch disc ($110: hey, might as well replace it while the motor is out!), new piston rings ($100), upper gasket kit for my 92 head ($150: cyl #2 had slight signs of bad valve seals). First off, the mechanic yanked the head. I'm getting it pressure tested, checking the valve guides, installing the new valve seals, and checking it with a straight edge to see if it had indeed been decked and had received a 3 angle valve job, etc. Second, the mechanic pulls the block to replace the crank and bearings. He also might have to ball-hone the cylinder walls. While he's in there, I'm gonna get him to drill the thrust bearing two more holes to get an adequate flow of oil to it. Lastly, he's gonna install the fresh ACT2600 disc and t.o. bearing because I have 45k miles on this setup.

Subject: $18.00 Crankwalk Fix - Update From:

Date: 25 Jul 2000 11:42:24 Message-ID: <#63>

What kind of driving has this car seen since I replaced the bearing? It has seen 130 mph a few times. There were quite a few big first and second gear, smoky burnouts. There were also two separate visits to the drag track, for a total of 12 passes. Eight of those passes were high 12 second runs. All of the runs were with 8.5 inch wide Racemaster slicks at 12 psi for that added drive train stress. There were two separate Autocross events for a total of 12 laps around the course. Those of you that were at the Shoot-out got to see me test the car a bit on the autocross and drag strip. I was the burgundy '97 GST (autocross - class STT #20) coming across the finish line with the stock RS-A's in smoke, and stock front brakes on fire. You don't get to do that on the street without getting into some kind of trouble. I was trying real hard to win a set of Khumo tires, but was a little off the pace in my class (but less than .250 of a second from the winner). (Give me a break - that is the only bragging I got to do at the SO, other than a .502 light at drag strip).

I spent yesterday going over the car since the Shoot-out. The car received new brake pads, new brake fluid, ground glaze off of the rotors, tranny fluid replacement, engine oil / filter replacement, and measured the thrust bearing play. The result is after all of this abuse, the crank thrust bearing now has 0.00030" of play. I had to use a set of digital calipers to measure with out pulling the oil pan. It took a little practice, to get accurate measurements, but, I finally found a spot to measure and get consistent readings.

Obviously, replacing the thrust bearing is not a permanent fix. It was never intended to be. I am calculating that I'll see crankwalk in about 40K more miles. At that time, if the crank, block and everything still looks good, I'll replace the thrust bearing again. I also believe the block and / or main bearing cap assembly is slightly warped, or something after taking pictures of my worn bearings, and studying them a little.

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Krauth
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 11:59 PM
To:
Subject: ROADRACE: walking crank advice

Hey, I just wanted some quick advice on the 'walking crankshaft' problem
with turbo Eclipses. I have a `96 GSX (stock) and now I'm completely
convinced that I have this problem. (BTW - thanks for your archive of the
digest about this - I was very confused by what's going on and the
digest was a revelation.)

I have the floating clutch feel, the turn-left-lose-clutch problem, and
one-click-on-engage, one-click-on-disengage symptoms. I *do not* hear any
constant clicking when holding the clutch in, however. I've been to the
dealer once and luckily decided *not* to have the throw out bearing
replaced like they suggested.

The questions: Should I just try to get the dealer to replace the
crankshaft, bearings, etc, or is it important to get the whole block
replaced? (I'm still under powertrain warranty.) If you have any other
suggestions, I'd be glad to hear them. Thanks.

Steve K. U.F.O. - "For the feeler gauge in you."

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Wong
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 8:53 PM
To:
Subject: walkingcrank

Hey Mike W,

How is it going? You haven't heard from me for awhile? Had this dreaded
walking crank problem that the 2nd gen DSM cars are cursed with. I was lucky
that my 1995 Talon did not have too much mileage. And I did get my warranty
to replace the crank, crank thrust bearings, and the crankshaft angle
sensor. I've only gotten my car for roughly two months when the problem has
just occurred again. This time when the car drives it sounds like it has that
tin can noise that only those Honda cars have with their fake mufflers.

I have heard that some people get the everything I got replaced and their
car runs fine ever since. And there are those few like me where the problem
occurs again. Why is this? Is it that the problem wasn't fixed correctly? I
also hear that there is a strengthened short block that can do the job. Have
you heard of this product? And if so, where or who can I contact to find out
more info on. I have an ACT 2600lb clutch installed and will changing back
to a stock unit help solve the problem. The sooner you write back the
better, since my car isn't drivable at the moment. I don't want to put
anymore risk on driving it. Thanks for all your help.

Richard Wong.

-----Original Message-----
From: Quinn Whipple
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 9:16 AM
To: ; Tym Switzer
Subject: [nwdsm] interesting info about crank walk

I was talking with one of my customers that works for a Mitsu Dealership. He said that yesterday they had a meeting to talk about crankwalk. Mitsubishi's position on is that the majority of the cases were caused by factory misadjusted clutch hydraulic systems. If they would have double checked the clutch adjustment as part of the new car prepping they feel that it would have greatly decreased the amount of crank walk issues with the car's.

Don't ask me for his name or which dealership he works for as I will not provide that information because it could cost my customer his job. Last thing he needs is a bunch of phone calls wanting him to verify what was said in a close door meeting.

Check your 2gen cars.

Quinn
Innovative Development, L.L.C. dba. Concept Racing
visit us on the web at www.crco.com

______________________________________________________

Hello Im the proud owner of a 2gen eclipse with crankwalk creeping on my heels sooooo to make a long story short I have all the usual symptoms sticky clutch weird ticking noise and every so often I get a noise in my timing cover that sounds like something being grinded up. I called my local hellhouse and the service manager proceeded to ream me out "IM SO SICK AND TIRED OF YOU JACKASS HOTRODDERS BREAKING YOUR CARS AND TRYING TO CALL IT CRANKWALK THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS CRANKWALK PROBLEMS" WTF I will never ask them for advice again I did my homework and it seems you guys are the people I need to talk to. Please give me some advice.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nevin Singh
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 12:03 PM
To:
Subject: [nwdsm] buy or rebuild a short block?

From: "Nevin Singh" <

I own a 96 Eclipse GSX with 62 857 miles on it. The engine was
diagnosed with a "walking crank" about less than 5 months ago, but
the problem occurred sometime back. I have been driving it despite its
condition, but a few days ago the engine gave out. The car idles
nicely, however, whenever the clutch is depressed the car dies
immediately. I have a new clutch in it. I have checked the tranny,
fluids, and hoses for leaks -- all checked out o.k. Now, I have no
doubts about the shortblock(sb) -- it's ruined! Several NWDSM members
have confirmed this.
There is no doubt I'm going to need a sb, and my question is
should I buy a new one or rebuild the engine? I have inquired about a
new sb from the dealership -- cost about $2400. Does any one know
how much it would cost to rebuild the shortblock? Money is an issue,
and I hoping to go with the cheapest option. If I were to rebuild the
engine, would it be reliable?

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 10:38 AM
To:
Subject: [nwdsm] Re: Engine Swap 2g to a 1g

I will assume your talking about a 1G motor into a 2G car... (you may
try to be a bit more descriptive with your posts!) If you were to do
it the other way around and say take a 2G motor and put it in your 1G
car.. It may be looked upon as a ... Um Less than Smart... idea! I
can back that up with testimonials from about 300+ crankwalk victims
by the way......

I will be transplanting a 1G motor into my 97 GSX next time my crank
walks (it walked at 56,000 on a 100% stock car and was "fixed" under
warranty with a new crank & bearings) I am hoping it will hold out for
at least 10,000 more miles but I am not holding my breath...

I would go to www.roadraceengineering.com for more info. On
their "site map" you'll find a link to a 1G to 2G motor swap (1G
motor/2G car) there... They will be doing the transplant for me, I
may be going with a J-spec "Cyclone" motor or an early EVO II or EVO
III motor... Not sure yet... Anyway check that out!

Good luck!
MitsuGSXtacy (AKA Jeff Anderson)
& My "Crank Walkin" '97 Eclipse GSX
Email me at
to be added to my "Crank Walk" mailing list.

____________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike W
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 6:22 PM
To:
Subject: [SoCal-DSM] 10 Step Program

Little clutch weirdness first.
Medium clutch weirdness second. Mushy clutch after a hard left turn
Major clutch weirdness third. Clutch falls to the floor when pushed after a
hard left turn.
Quickly followed by very slight ticking when the clutch is depressed
Next is moderate ticking when the clutch is depressed
Then ticking when the clutch is depressed
Then some stalling when the clutch is depressed
Then constant stalling when the clutch is depressed
Then it wont start if the clutch is depressed
Ultimately finishes off with constant sobbing 'cause you are depressed.

If you do have crank walk, your symptoms will depend on how far along you
are. up through the 2nd step it could be other stuff. After the clutch falls
to the floor on any hard right turn, you are done. Park the car and look for
a dealer to trade it in at or save your lunch money for a new motor.

Mike W

___________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike W
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 1:10 AM
To: Kirk Tome
Subject: RE: To Road Race

You are suffering from crankwalk. It is Mitsubishi's problem, they will blame you for it all they can.

http://shortbusstop.com/bca/crankwalk.html

http://www.dsm.org/scripts/htsearch?words=crankwalk&config=archive&method=boolean

http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/HobbyCt/awdturbo/Crankwalk.htm

You are not alone.
Mike W

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kirk Tome
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 12:39 AM
>
> Subject: To Road Race
>
>
> To anyone who can help me with my problem,
>
>       Hi. Short history of my '97 GS-T:
>
>               Bought three clutches because they kept failing,
> usually after ~15K miles.
> They were all ACT's with the 2100 lb. plate.
>
>               Got sick of this, so I purchased an ACT with the
> 2600 lb. plate (Clutch
> #4).
>
>               After about 1000 miles, engine died and would not
> restart. Mitsubishi
> dealer's repair shop stated that the crankshaft was damaged because its
> bearing failed, and damaged the crankshaft sensor. Fixed for about $2800
> (new crankshaft and sensor).
>
>               After about 1000 miles, engine died. Took back to
> Mitsubishi. They said
> same bearing failed, fixed for free under warranty (new
> crankshaft, sensor,
> and short block).
>
>               AGAIN, after about 1000 miles, engine died.
> Mitsubishi states it won't
> warranty the repair because of the heavier pressure plate.
>
>       This seems ridiculous. Could this problem really be because
> of the clutch?
> I'm really in a jam and want to determine the cause of this agonizing and
> expensive problem. If anyone has heard anything regarding this type of
> problem before, please let me know. I appreciate any help that
> you can give
> me.
>
> Thanks for your time,
> -Kirk Tome

I talked to Jack Friday night (tonight), and he said that I should e-mail Mike. My name is Mick Procovich. I have a '97 GST with a case of crankwalk. I wrote the $18.00 Crankwalk (temporary) fix e-mail on the Talon Digest. First of all, I felt pretty good when I friend (Cory Merkel - loves your site, and products - me too) informed me that my e-mail was the last thing on your crankwalk section, and links my Crankwalk page.

I added an oil feed hole on my last replacement bearing. The bearing still failed, but, after 8000 very hard miles. Actually, the end play was at 0.003" until I went to Pocono Raceway, and had 90 miles of racing action up to 135 mph. The wear increased to 0.008" after that event. Upon inspection, I noticed that, 1/2 moon face of the thrust bearing halves showed almost no wear, right where I drilled the extra hole. The other bearing faces showed major wear. The flywheel side still had both halves very worn.

My question. Do you have a good oil flow schematic/diagram of the 4G63 block? I only have the one in the chapter 11A-2. It only shows one oil feed to the thrust bearing. My bearings show two oil opening imprints on the upper half, block side. I assume one is the bearing being fed oil from the block, and am guessing the other opening is feeding one of the oil jets to keep the piston cool. I don't want to compromise the jet efficiency, but, would like to drill 1/16" annular oil feed holes around the bearing this time, at angles offsetting the holes, in an attempt not to compromise the bearing strength, and strategically place the holes to feed areas of the bearing, away from the channels that allow the oil to flow out of the bearing faces. I am thinking of the idea of annular discharge nozzles on some carburetors, to improve fuel distribution for better atomization, except in this case to improve oiling to a bearing that is crying for more oil, to help with other engine problems (block/machining).

I know my efforts are for a temporary fix, but, I would like to play around and see if the wear characteristics change with changes in oil distribution around the bearing. Right now, I am convinced that the block is either warped, and/or, the machining of the block, and main cap assembly is incorrect. If you have any ideas, that you think might help, I'd love to hear, and try them. I have nothing to lose, except an engine that is almost scrap in my mind anyway.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Andreas Santoso
>Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 12:37 AM
>To:
>Subject: Re: [nwdsm] crankshaft moves...

Best remedy for crankwalk = a good credit card.

Andre

NATE wrote:
>
> We have recently discovered that Gus's crankshaft moves about 1/16th ofan
> inch when he engages and disengages his clutch. Is this normal? Or should it
> not move at all? If its not supposed to move how do we remedy this problem?
>
> Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 9:44 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [SoCal-DSM] crankwalk fears

Crank walk at 62,000 miles....suxs!

Laurence
96GST

-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Yu
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 10:18 AM
To
Subject: RE: [SoCal-DSM] crankwalk fears

My 97 GSX with 24K miles got crankwalk so bad it looks like the crank hit
the block.
A six bolt motor is going in so I never have to worry about it again.

Lawrence

-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Yu
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 4:26 PM
To: ''
Subject: RE: [SoCal-DSM] Re: Crankwalk

Chris,

Having the clutch act strangely during left turns is usually an advanced
stage of crankwalk. In most advanced stages you will also hear the tick of
death. If you have the tick of death, you'll know.

To check for the tick of death, park your car someplace quiet with a good
echo. Underground parking garages work great for this. The echo will make
the tick much louder and more obvious. Park the car parallel to a wall with
the drivers side of the car close to the wall. The ticking noise comes from
the drivers side of the engine and will echo off the wall. Roll down your
window and let the car idle in neutral. Now comes the moment of truth.
Press the clutch all the way down. If you hear a loud ticking, you got
crankwalk. If you don't hear a loud ticking, you don't have crankwalk. The
ticking is either loud, or nonexistent. If there is no ticking, that
doesn't mean you don't have crankwalk or won't ever get it. It just means
that your car is not terminally ill with crankwalk at this time.

What causes the ticking? There is a crank angle trigger plate bolted to the
crankshaft. This trigger plate spins with the crank and is enclosed by a
crank angle sensor. Imagine that the trigger plate is a brake rotor and the
crank angle sensor is a brake caliper. The trigger plate has two huge
notches cut out of the outside of it. So imagine you had two huge notches
about 6" long and 2" deep cut out of the brake rotor on the outside. If
everything is working correctly the brake rotor will spin nicely inside the
caliper and not hit anything. If the brake rotor starts moving back and
forth, it will scrape the side of the brake caliper. Normally it would be a
continuous scraping, but since we cut some notches out, it will not scrape
where there is a notch cut out of the rotor. So the brake rotor would go
scrape, no scrape, scrape, no scrape. The trigger plate does the exact same
thing, except that the scraping of the metal trigger plate against the
plastic sensor sounds like ticking.

Lawrence

-----Original Message-----
From: LAM,DUNG CHI
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 3:44 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [SoCal-DSM] Re: Crankwalk

are you suffering from Crankwalk too

CHRIS

On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 wrote:

> In a message dated 2/21/01 12:28:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> writes:
>
> << its a stock clutch, and the clutch doesn't stick to the floor, its just
> really soft, and feels like its not grabbing... I'll check for the
ticking
> noise. What should i be looking out for? >>
> that sounds just exactly like mine does......wuwu..good luck

-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Yu
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 6:08 PM
To:
Subject: RE: [SoCal-DSM] Re: Crankwalk

When I had crankwalk, I could easily hear the ticking over my 3" exhaust.

I don't think that you have crankwalk. I think you probably just have a
tired clutch and normal transmission syncro wear.

Lawrence

-----Original Message-----
From: LAM,DUNG CHI
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 6:05 PM
To:
Subject: RE: [SoCal-DSM] Re: Crankwalk

Should the ticking be really loud? I don't hear anything, but it could be
do to my exhaust covering it up...should it be loud enough for me to hear?

Could it be a clutch problem. I haven't ever replaced my clutch...I've
got 83,000 miles right now...

when I'm at a complete stop and put into first, it goes in smooth. but
once i'm driving and put it into second or third, its kinda rough...not
too rough, but definitely NOT smooth.

thanks for the help.

CHRIS

___________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: grocery_
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 12:20 AM
To:
Subject: [nwdsm] CW

Say hello to one of Corey's dear old friend.

http://www.pics.dsm.org/?cid=602

Main bearings cap was assembled as is with ARP main studs during
previous rebuild. The results are those worn bearings in the pictures.
Very mildly worn, just a tad outta spec. As you can see from the
pictures, the ARP main studs, used as is, was originally very loose in
there. When you tighten the ARP fastener just like that, it opens the
can of worm of possible misalignment between the bearing cap and the
block. This can induce CW in engines that use the ARP hardware as is.
The dowel pin kit makes everything fit really tight in there the right
way it should be.

New thrust bearings were put in, along with Quinn's (www.crco.com)
main bearing dowel pin kit. After the main caps were reinstalled
(thrust bearing preload setting followed) with the new thrust bearings
and dowel pin kit in place, I measure crank end play one more time at
the crank with feeler gauge. I got somewhere between .005" and .006".
This is within spec. Hope it'll stay that way for a while.

After seeing what the old thrust bearings looks like, seeing how much
play there is between the studs and the factory holes, and finally
seeing how much the dowel pin kit actually really help to tighten
everything in there, needless to say, I am very amazed at what simple
dowel pins could do for insuring the right alignment between the cap
and the block. If you are rebuilding a block with ARP main studs
hardware, its just a good idea to get this kit and install it along
with the ARP hardware. Cheap insurance.

What a long weekend. I'm glad its over. Hello Tuesday.

Andre

-----Original Message-----
From: Garry
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 2:32 PM

Subject: Re: [SoCal-DSM] Digest Number 1458

>Message: 19
>Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:52:59 -0700
>From: "Mike W"
>Subject: RE: crankwalk fears
>
>Wow, no one has crank walk. Cool :-) You can
>relax....not HAhaha
>
>Locally:
>Roy...crankwalk
>Trais...crankwalk
>Steve Trimmins...crankwalk
>Dan Hickey...crankwalk
>Matt Kohlwey...crankwalk
>Alan Ho...crankwalk
>Some silver 2G I cant remember his name...crankwalk

Add me to the list!
Garry...crankwalk (at 50k, got new shortblock, running
fine now, knock on wood :)

Personally I think that that's a load of $hit...I've got a 95 Eclipse GSX that's got the crankwalk prob, and all it's ever had in it was the stock clutch. The crankwalk started for me at about 40-45k miles and has only gotten worse. It hasn't self destructed yet, god only knows what's keeping it running, but i fully expect it to die any day now. Jim 1280/2000

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 12:33 AM

Subject: "Walking crankshaft" problem

Hey guys,

My '97 GSX appears to have died with most of the symptoms described in
your web page on "Walking Crankshaft Info". It is the *ONLY* place I
found information on this (it's probably buried in the www.dsm.org
member's only section) so I'm very glad you folks posted it because I
hadn't a clue what had blown up.

My GSX is perfectly stock (unfortunately I don't have time to play any
more) and had oil changes every 3K miles, so there isn't any excuse for
this. It has 73K miles on it, but I had expected at least to get into 6
digits before having to do major work. I would appreciate suggestions
on how to get this fixed, not having the time/tools to do it myself. Do
you know of any good shops that would do this (I am in the Orange County
area)? I might be interested in beefing up the drivetrain while they
were at it (that clutch always seemed a little wimpy).

I'm going to yell at Mitsubishi, but don't have a lot of hope that they
will actually do anything for me. Thanks for your time and would
appreciate any info you could give me.

Regards,

Ed Takashima

_________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 4:52 PM

Subject: crankwalk

My friends 97 GSX walked, 68,000, last 20,000 on an ACT 2600 of course.

We put a dealer short block in, forking thing lasted 1900 miles. crank is wasted.
They won't give me a crank, have to turn the whole short block back in.

Doug

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:43 PM

Subject: Re: [nwdsm] Speaking of Crankwalk...

no, because stock 4g63 cranks from 1993 to 1999 use micro sized bearings that
are in .0000 units of measurement.   King only makes one size of "standard"
sized bearings accurate to .000   It would be possible to install a set of
King or ACL bearings and have oil tolerance issues even with a "standard"
sized bearing. Basically the rod and main journals on stock 1993-1999
cranks are not uniform size.

Quinn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Lemon"
To:
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nwdsm] Speaking of Crankwalk...

> Quinn,
>
> Lets say a car has 53K miles, no sign of CW and the clutch is adjusted
> pretty OK would you recommend doing the Kings bearing replacement?
>
> Mike "Curious George" L.
>
>
> >From: "
> >Reply-To
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: [nwdsm] Speaking of Crankwalk...
> >Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:52:21 -0700
> >
> >We run King bearings, as well as ACL and Stock units.    They will walk
> >with
> >Kings and ACL and Stock.   The issue isn't with the bearings/crank.   The
> >issue is with the clutch and the hydrolic system.
> >
> >
> >Quinn

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Mendoza
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 6:37 PM
To:
Subject: [SoCal-DSM] crankwalk

I have 96 GSX with 76,000 miles cursed with the early stages of crankwalk. If you have not checked for crankwalk, I suggest you do. I decided to check for crankwalk even though I did not encounter any of the symptoms. Hopefully, I caught it in time before any major damage occurred internally. I will keep you guys updated on the progress of repairing my car.

-Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: C Sattler
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 9:04 AM
To:
Subject: More on the crankwalk story

FYI-

Took the short block to a machine shop here locally, and he had the
crank repaired, and did a basic rebuild on the bottom. He had to
replace one piston as the skirts were pushed together .004", and the
wrist pin was galling - both due to the crank walking. He said he put
it together snug as a bug in a rug, and I've disconnected the clutch
start switch, so hopefully it won't happen again. All and all, I've put
in around $1400 or so just to fix this problem alone. Nice.

And, just as a reminder, the short block was replaced about 17,000 miles
ago (when the car had a warranty) by Mitsu using a factory replacement.
Clutch was stock, never at the strip, and the previous owner drove it
like a grandma. I drove it harder, but no racing and only a couple of
low RPM launches. Basically nothing the car shouldn't have been able to
handle in stride, especially with a brand new short block.

Hope this helps, and please let me know if you hear anything concerning
a recall or whatever.

Thanks!

--
Corey Sattler
95 GSX
NW DSM

-----Original Message-----
From: Andre
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 11:28 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [SoCal-DSM] Re: crankwalk fears

1 gst fwd, Mick Provich (creator of the crank walk fix) got crankwalk 2
times, 97 fwd, 64k

1 gsx 97 80k got crankwalk (greg kubida)

These are on the east coast.

Subject: [2G-T] Crank Walk (Possible future HELP) [RTP]
From: Jeff Anderson
Date: 07 May 2001 18:48:54
Message-ID: <#21>
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To all concerned,

Thank you for your e-mails in regards to the Crank Walk problem which has
destroyed so many of our Mitsubishi 4g63 motors. In a continuing effort to
resolve this problem with Mitsubishi I am going to ask that you supply me
with some information! This is purely on a voluntary basis and in no way are
you required to comply with this request.

In order for me to serve you more efficiently, Please send me an Email using
the following format: Remember all this information is optional. (the more
Info I can gather the better chance we have...)

NOTE** The following info will be informative and very helpful whether you
have crank walk now or not!

EXAMPLE

Your Name: Jeff Anderson
Your Email: (Your e-mail will be kept confidential)
Your phone #: (Your Phone # will be kept confidential)
Your address: (Your Address will be kept confidential)
Year of car: 1997
Make of car: Mitsubishi
Model or car: Eclipse GSX
Current Mileage: 56,000 +/-
Mileage at first sign of Crank Walk: 53,000 +/-
Any "Symptoms" you noticed: Clutch problems... (Use as much space as you
wish)
Any Engine, Clutch & Trans. Mods: NONE 100% Stock
Other: (any comments you care to share with the rest of the victims can be
put in this area.)

Thanks for all your support!

Just some general information for you:
The list is now well over 300 strong.

I will be contacting Attorneys in numerous areas of the US for assistance
later this summer, This is not a Short or Easy process and will take a LOT
of time. If your car is "walking" now my suggestion is to get it fixed, (for
now) if possible and we can deal with the cost when this thing comes to
fruition.

I am in NO way able to guarantee any type of settlement, nor do I make any
claims as such. I am ONLY a messenger here and will do all I can to help
ALL of you!

I want to thank some people for their help and ask that you patronize them
in an effort to support them as they are supporting us!

The All Mighty CLUB DSM has been a great help as well as the Talon Digest,
If your not a member become one now! It's free and gives you tons of
references to all aspects of DSM tuning. Visit them at:
www.dsm.org
(I am a member of the NW chapter... www.nw.dsm.org)

Thanks to Marco and the crew up at Magnus Motorsports in Canada for all
their work, Also thanks for putting a link to my email on their Crank Walk
Theory Pages! Visit them at:
www.magnusmotorsports.com

Mike At Road//Race Engineering, they will be doing my 1G motor transplant as
soon as my motor walks again! Check out all their GREAT info on their tech
pages... at:
www.roadraceengineering.com

There are many more and I apologize for not fitting them in here, there will
be emails once a month to update everyone who is on the mailing list on how
things are going. Stay tuned! I will do my best to send the emails close to
the 15th of the month, as that is when I have the most time. Right now I am
working 60 hours a week, Researching this subject Managing the list, Making
time for appointments with Lawyers and about 1000 other things! So if I am
late getting to the Email list I am sorry! I'll do my best.

If anyone has anything to offer in the way of information regarding Wrank
Walk PLEASE pass it my way! I need all the help/info I can get!

Thanks for the Space Todd, and good luck to all of my walkin buddies!

Jeff Anderson
'97 Crank Walkin'
Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
temporarily fixed under warranty with a "bandaid"
(new crank, main bearings, thrust bearing...Etc...)
when it walks again (and it will) NO WARRANTY!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Please read, New to DSM's, Crank Walk?!?
From: Blake
Date: 05 May 2001 17:23:05
Message-ID: <#17>
[Next] [Prev] [Top] [Post Reply] [Bibliography]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 weeks ago I purchased a 95 GST with 65,000 miles. I pretty much knew
nothing about these cars until I subscribed to this digest a couple of
weeks ago and have learned a lot from the digest and the Club DSM pages.
Well, over the past couple of weeks I noticed 2 strange problems with my
car that I had figured were small until now. First, I noticed that the
clutch pedal has been sticking to the floor as I slow down and pull into my
driveway, sharp left turn. I figured it was just a bad slave or possible
master cylinder and I would rebuild it. The Second problem was a random
ticking noise near the right side of the intake manifold (Most of you know
where this is going I'm sure). Today I was bored and decided to read through
the "1000 already answered questions faq" and came across a couple of
interesting questions, "what is crank walk" and "how can I tell if my car
has a walking crankshaft". After reading these my jaw hit the floor. Looks
like I have unfortunately joined the crank walking crew. So does anyone know
if there has been a recall on this problem yet? I'm basically stumped as far
as what should I do? Do I just wait to lose the engine or what? Thanks,

Blake

Subject: Crankwalk info from an outside source
From:    Joshua Wingell
Date:    11 Apr 2001 13:23:25
Message-ID: <#32>
[Next] [Prev] [Top] [Post Reply] [Bibliography]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Charlie Vlachos on the New England list sent this link. I suggest
that EVERYONE read it. It is a page that describes common causes of
thrust bearing failure in every engine.

It also tells you how to properly align the thrust bearing when
assembling the engine.

The page is fascinating, coming from someone who has had a thrust
bearing failure (or two or three) of his own.

Check it out:
http://www.atra-gears.com/crankshaft/

Check out the "What Will Help Thrust Bearings Survive?" section near
the bottom of the page. They describe a very interesting way to
channel oil to the thrust surface. Anyone think that this is a good idea?

Which brings up an interesting topic. Oil needs to flow from the oil
channel across the bearing surface to the thrust surface. 2G engines
have an odd bearing selection setup that could possibly end up with
tolerances that vary from tight to loose. So, what if the blocks that
get crankwalk simply have very tight clearances between the bearing
and the crank. This impedes the oil flow to the thrust surface, which
in-turn, causes the oil film between the thrust bearing and the crank
to be less than an engine with looser tolerances.

Then there is the last section regarding engine grounding! Could this
be the culprit?

"Aside from the items already mentioned, there is another external
problem that should be addressed. Ground problems have been known
to intensify thrust surface wear. Excessive current in the drivetrain
can damage the thrust surface, which then affects the thrust bearing
as though the thrust surface on the crank shaft isn't finished properly."

Not so sure about that one. But talk about coming out of left field!
Just think, installing a stereo could cause crankwalk...

Josh Wingell
'97 Eclipse GSX

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Crankwalk problems/crank replacement without ring replacement
From:    Joshua Wingell
Date:    11 Apr 2001 13:23:43
Message-ID: <#33>
[Next] [Prev] [Top] [Post Reply] [Bibliography]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And now for a post on my own problems:
I am having problems keeping my thrust bearing from wearing
out on my *6-bolt* engine. I used ARP main studs, but I did
not have the block line bored. I am wondering if this might
be causing an unevenness in the thrust bearing surface when
torqued down to the ARP spec of 60 ft-lbs.

As well, ARP studs have a smaller diameter than the stock
Mitsubishi fasteners (at least on 6-bolts). I wonder if
this might allow the caps to "walk," even when torqued down.

Some history. I put a 6-bolt block into my car, but I did
not align the thrust bearing halves as shown on
http://www.atra-gears.com/crankshaft/ . Which, by the way,
contains the most complete set of instructions I have ever
seen for thrust bearing alignment.

My RPMs would drop by 30 whenever I pushed in the clutch. When
I took off the oil pan and removed the bearing, sure enough,
only one half of the flywheel side of the bearing was worn.
The two halves were out of alignment when I torqued things down.

So I replaced the bearing. The crank seemed fine. I had 0.005"
of clearance between the bearing and the crank. Within spec.

Fast forward to this past weekend. I checked my thrust
clearance again. It has increased to 0.01". It is out of
spec at 1000mi. And yes, my RPMs fell by 30 whenever I pushed
in the clutch.

So, my thought is that either I made a mistake using the ARP
studs, or the crank was worn from the 150mi of driving with
the bearing misaligned.

So, my new plan is to get a different crank. I found a
complete long block for $200. I'm going to use the crank
out of it. I'm going to have it polished, but not the thrust
surfaces.

I'm also not going to even take the pistons out of the bores.
The rings are already seated.    The engine has 1000mi on it.
But it has been brought to my attention that replacing the
crank might mess up the geometry enough to unseat the rings.
Is this a problem?

I am also going to use stock main bolts. Call me crazy, but
the ARPs are scaring me.

I am also going to do the oil feed mod that is mentioned on the page
above by filing a larger channel to the thrust bearing.

http://www.atra-gears.com/crankshaft/bearing.jpg

Thanks!
Josh Wingell
'97 Eclipse GSX

Subject: Re: thrust bearing and clutch adjustment
From:    Quinn Whipple
Date:    5 Mar 2001 18:53:50
Message-ID: <#11>
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Keith,

With most any hydraulic clutch systems, once the system gets past it's
designed adjustment point, hydraulic system will begin to store the hydraulic
pressure. When this happens, the system will pump up like a hydraulic floor
jack that is used to lift a car.   When the system is pumped up it puts a
continual lateral load on the thrust bearing.   We have seen clutch systems
that were just a little bit out of adjustment eventually store enough
hydraulic pressure to keep an ACT 2100 from engaging completely.

As far as adjustment: First: If you have a 2gen car, get an aftermarket
clutch line that eliminates the clutch reservoir on the front of the trans.
I am unsure why the factory installed the unit, but it seems to compound the
storing of hydraulic fluid in 2gen cars.

Second.   With any clutch pedal height change, check the system to make sure
that it is not storing the hydraulic pressure. This can be done by putting
the front of the car on jack stands, push on the clutch 10-15 times in a row,
then have a friend try and push the slave cyl back into the housing.   If you
can not move the slave cyl, then the system is storing the pressure and the
adjustment under the dash must be changed.

I hope this helps point you in the correct direction.

Quinn
Innovative Development
www.crco.com

Subject: I need your help Crankwalk sufferers past and present!!
From:    Alan Chen
Date:    07 Mar 2001 12:33:49
Message-ID: <#16>
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello everyone,

I want to start by saying how great this digest is, I have pulled so
much useful information out of these pages that a simple thanks could
never do it justice. With that said I need specific help on this one.
After searching through the archives, and countless web sites on the
problem of crankwalk I have came to no real conclusion on a true long
term fix. My question really goes out to the people with 2G's that have
had this problem and have effectively fixed it. I have been told to
replace my crank shaft and bearings, but I have also been told his is
only a temporary fix, lasting a couple of years. Is this really true?
The dealer, SATAN, says that this will fix it. But I don't trust him
after all they are going to benefit from any return visits. Please
RTP. I love this car so much, but I need some concrete evidence to make
a decision on what to do. I don't have the money to replace with a new
engine and crankshaft.

A side note the car is a '97TSI AWD w/50K, it's still very drivable,
but has all the left hand turn shifting problems, and that clicking
sound when the clutch is depressed.

Thanks
Alan 2G TSI AWD
_________________________________________________________

Subject: Crankwalk signs - prevention?
From: Joe Stewart >Date: 24 Jan 2001 10:23:39
Message-ID: <#42>[Next] [Prev] [Top] [Post Reply] [Bibliography]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Also, it seems that, other than miss-machined crankshaft at
>the factory, oil starvation at the squirter of the bearing
>is the culprit of rapid wear of the crankshaft bearing -
>something about the one-way valve gets stuck closed with grime
>build up, & that the valve itself is too small in the>first place.

Please remember that this is only one of many crank walk *theories*. It has
yet to be proven.
For a counterpoint, my 97 GSX crank walked at 50,000 miles. The engine was
very clean, it looked new almost. None of the squirters were stuck open or
shut, and there wasn't any trash loose in the motor.
Kinda takes away from the piston squirter theory, doesn't it? Jay
97 GSX, alive after an 8 month nap due to crank walk, crossing his fingers
on an experimental fix

Silver 98 FWD, 64K miles Build date 7/97

Silver 98 FWD, 64K miles Build date 7/97

Feels the clutch pedal going to the floor on left turns, no noise from the crank sensor hitting yet. All the dealers so far he talked to had not heard of the problem.

Side to side play about 1/8 inch total.

Subject: [2G,T] Crankwalk and the crank sensor
From: Paul Estevez
Date: 29 Sep 2000 01:54:38
Message-ID: <#22>
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>I never did swap my crank trigger sensor out for a new one. I figured my
>crank walked OUTWARD, therefore the sensor wasn't hurt. Also, the crank
>trigger sensor didn't show up in the engine diagnostic at SATAN.

Well, this was a mistake. You MUST replace this sensor. This is the sensor
that is damaged. Your car will never start without a new or perfect
condition crank angle sensor.

Also, I recently saw a post indicating that simply replacing the crank and
the bearings is a mistake, and that it wont fix anything. There is some
truth to that. Ultimately, the block has to be checked. If the crank has
been pushing itself into a main journal, then the journal is likely chewed
up, depending on how long you've been turning the motor over with the clutch
depressed, and the crank pushed into the block. Think of a cheese-grater.
If this is the case, then you need a new block. Personally, I wouldn't
trust the Remanufactured blocks. But, if this is not the case, then you, as
it was with me, will not need the new block.

I will now repost a few noteworthy paragraphs I have posted to the digest:

Date: 09 Mar 2000 13:22:25

The crank walk issue: If you are among those cursed with this enigma, you
have a few choices:
~Trade the car in to your favorite Satan dealership.
~Buy (or have the dealer buy if you have warranty remaining) a new short
block.
~Repair the problem. The one way to fix this is: Buy a new crankshaft.
Whatever happens, don't have your old crank turned. You must throw it away
anyway. With your new crank in hand, read the color codes on the crank as
well as the engine codes under the block (have a competent Mitsu tech help
you) and look to the engine rebuild shop manual to decipher the correct main
bearings to use with your SPECIFIC crankshaft/engine block combination.
Don't screw this up (no pun intended) you'll have to tear it all down again
if you do. Use new rod bearings, the revised design center thrust bearing
(this is the bearing that fails, allowing the crank to walk), a new trigger
plate for the crank sensor, A NEW CRANK SENSOR, and new timing belt items
that need replacing, since you're in there anyway. This information was
obtained via the Mitsubishi tech line, and was the resolution to my crank
walk problem, which never resurfaced.

On a related note, I and several readers have always been confused when
someone with a 1G says we all have one all inclusive sensor that reads
camshaft angle as well as crankshaft angle, and that sensor is located on
the passenger side of the intake camshaft. This is indeed the case with
90-94 DSM's. However, 95-98 turbo DSM's have two separate sensors: one to
read cam angle, located on the driver's side of the intake camshaft for the
95-96 models and located on the passenger side of the intake camshaft (same
as 1G) for 97 and maybe 98? (not sure about 98'), and one to read crankshaft
angle. 2G turbo DSMs have a completely separate crankshaft angle sensor
located adjacent to the crankshaft sprocket reading its signal via a
"trigger plate" or a "back plate" depending on which shop manual you read.
When the crankshaft "walks", it pushes the back plate into the crank sensor
causing it to fail (literally, it tears through the sensor). The approximate
cost for a new crank angle sensor for a 2G turbo is between $40-$70. The
part number for the crank angle sensor for a 2G turbo is MD 300101. If your
crank sensor has suddenly failed, the chances that the sensor has done so on
its own, with no mechanical factors to effect that failure in the first
60,000 miles, are low. If you have taken apart your car to replace the crank
sensor, look to see if there are plastic shavings on the trigger plate,
where the plate has actually contacted the sensor itself. To replace the
sensor alone is a short term fix, if your crankshaft is walking. Getting to
the crank sensor is a lengthy process since the timing belt and all else has
to come off. You might even use the opportunity to change your timing belt.

The most important lesson learned from driving my dsm was that I did not own
a reliable, trouble-free automobile. I owned a dsm. It's quirky, just like
all the dsm owners I've ever known. You have to maintain it with a zeal
unmatched by other enthusiasts. Buy new OEM parts, and never chance a
"funny" noise, of which there will be many. This is important because
unfortunately, Mitsubishi is NOT on your side. Your only refuge is the
preponderance of information on the web, the shop manual at your side, and
the wind in your hair.

Paul Estevez
94' Supra tt

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Subject: more Crankwalk
From:    Marco Passante
Date:    14 Mar 2001 23:34:53
Message-ID: <#30>
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Interesting theory, but I have to come out and say something on this, the
bearings look like they are worn unevenly, that is because there is more
bearing material on the ends of the bearings. When pulled from the block
they are flat. Perfectly flat. First the bearing wears then the crank
wears.

That cutter life theory is interesting, but when a cutter starts to wear
down it just doesn't cut right anymore, and any skilled machinist replaces
it otherwise it would be slowing production.

I hope I didn't misunderstand your post, and I'm not trying to knock it,
just making discussion. I have assembled many block and before we do
anything they are meticulously measured and we cannot find any fault in the
machining.   The different sized bearings asked to be used in the Chrysler
manual are for bearing thicknesses due to different ground cranks.

As for the squirter hanging open, they are not hanging open but it seems
the spring becomes weak and they open too early sometimes as low as 10 psi.
That is explained in detail on my crankwalk page 2.

We have successfully repaired cars that had crankwalk by not replacing the
blocks, but only the crank. More time will be needed to see how they hold
up. Our cranks are scrapped unless they can hold .003" endplay, if not we
get a new crank. Most cars that have crank walked have had questionable oil
pumps on the last few engines, that we have been thoroughly going through.

The new motors are currently being tested they include specially coated
bearings, New pumps, .003" endplay, balanced assemblies, and NO squirters.
We feel if that the squirters are just another liability.

Marco

Walking Crankshaft Information For the 95-99 Mitsubishi Eclipse/Talon Turbo (4G63 Motor)

From Bill Piaczenza:

From the Talon Digest Archives:

Silver 98 FWD, 64K miles Build date 7/97